Grand Lake’s Long History Formed by glaciers, surrounded by Colorado’s Rocky Mountains, Grand Lake has smitten tourists for generations. No one forgets Grand Lake. The lake itself is the deepest and largest natural lake in Colorado, and the area attracts an impressive diversity of wildlife. In the mid-1800s, European hunting parties discovered Grand Lake. Some […] East Grand Lake is located between the U.S. state of Maine and the Canadian province of New Brunswick. The boundary between the United States and Canada passes through the lake. In Maine it falls within two counties, Washington and Aroostook , and in New Brunswick it serves as the western boundary of York County .Grand Lake is Colorado's largest and deepest natural lake, and is part of the headwaters of the Colorado River. The lake became a component in the Colorado-Big Thompson Project (C-BT) in 1937, when it was recruited as a conduit for C-BT project water. The C-BT project diverts water from the Colorado … See moreLive luxuriously in one of four Presidential Suites located on a high floor and boasting the resort's best views. Ranging in size between 1,680 - 2,100 square feet, these suites boast a master king bedroom and 1.5 baths with a separate living room, dining table for eight, and a private office. Book Now.Grand Lake was originally an outfitting and supply point for the mining settlements of Lulu City, Teller City, and Gaskill, but today is a tourist destination into Rocky Mountain National Park to the north. Grand Lake was the Grand County seat of government from 1882-1888. It was incorporated on June 23, 1944.Grand Lake Colorado offers unique lodging including cabins, lodges, hotels, vacation rental homes & condos Grand Lake Colorado travel guide, tips, lodging, activities, restaurants, area map and local events calendar, get information about Grand Lake water levels, weather, and travel conditions when planning your Rocky Mountain trip.Once you get to Grand County, use one of our local transportation options to navigate from town to town. Learn More. With more than 500 surface acres, Grand Lake is the largest … Grand Lake is a lake located in central New Brunswick, Canada. It is approximately 40 kilometres east of Fredericton; and the province's largest open body of water being a total of 20 kilometers long and 5 kilometres wide. [1] The lake drains through the Jemseg River and the Grand Lake Meadows into the Saint John River . Thousand Oak Resort sits on a beautiful, 30 acre, oak-tree-lined property in Vinita, Oklahoma a short drive away from Grand Lake. We have cabins, a yurt, & an event center available to rent. Plenty to do on-site as we have a saltwater pool, volleyball & basketball courts, fire pits, a spa, a restaurant & a coffee shop.232 Cliff Heights. Disney, Oklahoma 74340. Contact. 918-435-8066. More Info. Cherokee State Park. Cherokee State Park is considered a nature lover's dream in the Grand Lake OK area. If you love to camp, the option is available in this location. Also, fishing and boating in the area are options.The Grand Lake has a new discount policy: Tuesday is now “$6.00 Day”. All admissions are $6.00* each all day long. This includes 3-D features! (*Excluding Special Engagements) Our new discount policy now extends to matinee shows! All tickets for showtimes starting prior to 6pm are only $7.50, 3-D included! Every day!Accommodations. With 1,582 total rooms and suites, you'll find your choice of modern and luxurious accommodations at Grande Lakes Orlando. Each elegantly appointed room and spacious suite at the JW Marriott Orlando and The Ritz-Carlton Orlando offers exceptional resort amenities and luxuries in residential-inspired accommodations. Grand Lake is Colorado 's largest and deepest natural lake. [5] It is located in the headwaters of the Colorado River in Grand County, Colorado. Its north shore is on located the historic and eponymous town of Grand Lake. The lake was formed during the Pinedale glaciation, which occurred from 30000 BC to 10000 BC. [6] Jul-Aug – Arts and Crafts Fair – Two weekends in Grand Lake Town Park that showcase local art and handmade crafts. Aug – Buffalo Days – A community-wide BBQ to celebrate a unique culinary staple of the area: buffalo barbecue. The days will be filled with food, a 5k run, a movie screening, and a cornhole tournament. The perfect homebase for your Grand Lake. adventures! 2 blocks from the lake. Upcoming Events. Wed 24. Homeschool Hangout. April 24 @ 11:00 am - 12:00 pm MDT . Grand Lake. Thu 25. Juniper Library Storytime. April 25 @ 10:30 am - 11:30 am MDT . Grand Lake. View More… Explore. Restaurants & Dining; Hotels & Lodging; Shopping;Go Camping. The main road through Rocky Mountain National Park is Trail Ridge Road, the highest continuous paved road in the country. This scenic 48-mile stretch connects the towns of Grand Lake and Estes Park by winding through meadows, evergreen forests and delicate alpine tundra, crossing the Continental Divide just before cresting at more ...Welcome to Rent Grand Lake. Grand Lake is an idyllic mountain town that is the west entrance of Rocky Mountain National Park. Are you looking for a getaway? Stone Hill House is the perfect place to relax and enjoy Grand Lake! STONE HILL HOUSE. 5BR/5.5BA Located in Town Near Grand Avenue Main Street and Sleeps 14.Grand Lake Casino, Grove Oklahoma, Grove, Oklahoma. 15,823 likes · 195 talking about this · 7,589 were here. Grand Lake Casino offers 45,000 square-feet of gaming and live entertainment. Grand Lake Area. Serpentine Grand Lake is located on the Grand (Neosho) River in northeastern Oklahoma offering 46,500 surface acres and 1,300 miles of shoreline. Exceptional recreational facilities are available at five state parks around the scenic shoreline. With a reputation for great fishing and the proximity to the 13,000-acre Spavinaw ... Grand Lake Colorado offers unique lodging including cabins, lodges, hotels, vacation rental homes & condos Grand Lake Colorado travel guide, tips, lodging, activities, restaurants, area map and local events calendar, get information about Grand Lake water levels, weather, and travel conditions when planning your Rocky Mountain trip.Taste locally roasted coffee as well as select small bites including breakfast and lunch sandwiches, salads, pastries, candy, and snacks. Location: The Ritz-Carlton, lobby level. Mon-Thu,Sun: 6:00 AM-6:00 PM. Fri-Sat: 6:00 AM-7:00 PM. Visit Website. Steakhouse.Now $351 (Was $̶4̶9̶4̶) on Tripadvisor: JW Marriott Orlando, Grande Lakes, Orlando. See 4,025 traveler reviews, 2,516 candid photos, and great deals for JW Marriott Orlando, Grande Lakes, ranked #153 of 366 hotels in Orlando and rated 4 of 5 at Tripadvisor.Here's how to plan the perfect trip to Grand Lake, Colorado. Best Things to Do in Grand Lake Hike, bike, or drive through the quieter side of Rocky Mountain National Park. Grand Lake St. Marys and other canal feeder lakes in Ohio were the first areas to be dedicated as state parks in 1949. Natural Features. At one time, the vast expanse of water that is Grand Lake St. Marys, was a vast wet prairie and forests, which stretched from the Allegheny mountains of Pennsylvania to the prairies of Illinois. East Grand Lake is located between the U.S. state of Maine and the Canadian province of New Brunswick. The boundary between the United States and Canada passes through the lake. In Maine it falls within two counties, Washington and Aroostook , and in New Brunswick it serves as the western boundary of York County .Join Grand Lake Hospice for "An Evening Under the Stars" as we raise money for hospice patients and families. This highly anticipated event will be held on Saturday, April 20, 2024, at Romer's Banquet Hall in Celina, Ohio. The semi-formal evening hosts a gourmet dinner, live entertainment by the Blue Water Kings, and much more!Ways To Stay. Lakeshore Bliss RV Resort offers lakefront RV sites on Grand Lake, furnished rentals, and tent camping year-round. With nightly, weekly, and monthly rentals. Sites have 20/30/50-amp hook-ups. The RV Resort has full and partial hook-ups available. We welcome you to enjoy all community amenities. Lakeshore Bliss RV Resort is your …Ways To Stay. Lakeshore Bliss RV Resort offers lakefront RV sites on Grand Lake, furnished rentals, and tent camping year-round. With nightly, weekly, and monthly rentals. Sites have 20/30/50-amp hook-ups. The RV Resort has full and partial hook-ups available. We welcome you to enjoy all community amenities. Lakeshore Bliss RV Resort is your …Visit Grand Lake, Colorado, a beautiful Colorado mountain town located at the entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park. The perfect place for Colorado weekend getaways or …Grand Lake: The town of Grand Lake is located on the southern shore of Grand Lake itself, after which it is named. Grand Lake is a natural glacial lake covering an area of approximately 500 acres (202 hectares). It is fed by snowmelt and runoff from the surrounding mountains and serves as a recreational hub for boating, fishing, and other …Your safety is our top priority. Our trained and skilled firefighters are ready to respond to emergencies, protect lives, and safeguard property.The town of Grand Lake is located near the western entrance to the crown jewel of Colorado’s natural attractions: Rocky Mountain National Park. Established in 1915, the park spans 265,000 acres of rugged and breathtaking landscape with 355 miles of hiking trails and hundreds of pristine Colorado lakes and rivers to explore. The park is home ...Seize your piece of paradise poolside at the. Ritz-Carlton Orlando, Grande Lakes! Now until May 20th, 2024 save up to 15%. on your cabana or daybed. Use promo code BLSR24 to apply the discount. See you there! Close. Reserve Cabanas, Amenities, Activities, Day Passes at The Ritz-Carlton Orlando, Grande Lakes in Orlando, Florida.The Grand Lake Marina rents pontoon boats and Boston Whalers and is located at Grand Lake’s waterfront. It also offers chartered sunset party cruises for up to 35 people. Or you can spend time on Shadow Mountain Lake, a reservoir connected to Grand Lake via a short canal.The Trail Ridge Marina on Shadow Mountain Lake rents pontoon …Conveniently located within a short driving distance from the 3 major cities of Moncton, Fredericton and Saint John and the U.S. border and offering panoramic views of the biggest freshwater lake in New Brunswick- Grand Lake, we offer 10 luxurious fully-equipped stargazer domes, each one with its own unique theme and wood-fired hot tub.Accommodations. With 1,582 total rooms and suites, you'll find your choice of modern and luxurious accommodations at Grande Lakes Orlando. Each elegantly appointed room and spacious suite at the JW Marriott Orlando and The Ritz-Carlton Orlando offers exceptional resort amenities and luxuries in residential-inspired accommodations.Head to Grand Lake, a quaint, historic town surrounded on three sides by Rocky Mountain National Park. Just a mile from the park’s west entrance, Grand Lake, Colo., offers incredible family friendly activities from paddle boating and nature walks to world-class theater productions. Not bad for a town of 400 residents, all of whom seem ...Taste locally roasted coffee as well as select small bites including breakfast and lunch sandwiches, salads, pastries, candy, and snacks. Location: The Ritz-Carlton, lobby level. Mon-Thu,Sun: 6:00 AM-6:00 PM. Fri-Sat: 6:00 AM-7:00 PM. Visit Website. Steakhouse.GRAND LAKE, CO. Known as the "Western Gateway" to Rocky Mountain National Park, Grand Lake has something for everyone, and the charming lakeside setting makes folks … Grand Lake is Colorado 's largest and deepest natural lake. [5] It is located in the headwaters of the Colorado River in Grand County, Colorado. Its north shore is on located the historic and eponymous town of Grand Lake. The lake was formed during the Pinedale glaciation, which occurred from 30000 BC to 10000 BC. [6] There's the Western-style boardwalk lined with locally owned boutiques and lakeside restaurants like The Waterfront, which has spectacular views. Despite its small …Grand Lake is the biggest and deepest natural water body that is situated in Grand County, in the north-central part of the US State of Colorado. The Grand Lake is …Grand Lake O' the Cherokees helicopter rides are some of the most comprehensive touring experiences in Ketchum, Oklahoma. If you've ever wanted to ride in a helicopter, then you don't want to miss a fun flight on one of our helicopter rides around Grand Lake and North East Oklahoma. There are several tour options to choose from.Winter Magic in Grand Lake, CO. Grand Lake receives an average of 130 inches of snowfall per year making it an excellent destination for winter adventures. The area is especially …Jan 11, 2024 · Hanging out on Town Dock. Grand Lake's Town Beach. Year-round fishing at Point Park. Adams Falls on East Inlet Train in Rocky Mountain National Park. Wildflowers blooming near Point Park. East Shore Trail in Rocky Mountain National Park along the Continental Divide Trail. Summer's Arts & Crafts FairSummer's Arts & Crafts Fair. Grand Lake Colorado travel guide, tips, lodging, activities, restaurants, area map and local events calendar, get information about Grand Lake water levels, weather, and travel conditions when planning your Rocky Mountain trip. Nordic Skiing – The Grand Lake Nordic Center is one of the top spots in Grand County for cross-country skiing, featuring 35km of meticulously groomed trails, a rental center and a lesson program. Don’t miss their monthly Full Moon Ski events where people ski (or snowshoe) to a trail-side bonfire with a hot beverage station. Accommodations. With 1,582 total rooms and suites, you'll find your choice of modern and luxurious accommodations at Grande Lakes Orlando. Each elegantly appointed room and spacious suite at the JW Marriott Orlando and The Ritz-Carlton Orlando offers exceptional resort amenities and luxuries in residential-inspired accommodations.Grand Lake is the biggest and deepest natural water body that is situated in Grand County, in the north-central part of the US State of Colorado. The Grand Lake is … 1026 Park Avenue | Grand Lake, CO 80447-0099 | P.O. Box 99 | (970) 627-3435 Stay in the heart of North Central Florida. Sun Retreats Ocala Orange Lake and Golf Resort is surrounded by natural beauty, from rivers and clear springs to hiking trails and golf courses. Get in touch with us to book your dream RV vacation in Florida. 18545 Northwest 45th Avenue Road, Citra FL 32113. (352) 591-1251.Grand Lake Subdivision is a quiet community located in South Huntsville, AL. Grand Lake Subdivision has an active Homeowners Association governed by covenants and an Architectural Control Committee to manage and maintain the appearance of the yards, homes and property and keep property values high. The subdivision is close to all the ... Town of Grand Lake Zoning Map (3 MB) Home; Staff Login; Accessibility; 1026 Park Avenue | Grand Lake, CO 80447-0099 | P.O. Box 99 | (970) 627-3435. Grab your float and drift away at an unhurried pace on the winding waters of the quarter-mile, 670,000 gallon Lazy River. Long a primary attraction, the Lazy River meanders through the heart of the water park, flowing through lush tropical greenery with jets, waterfalls, and bridges from one area to the next–connecting the pleasing pools and ...918-600-5790. [email protected]. Catherine Divis. Account Supervisor – Schnake Turbo Frank. 918-645-0629. [email protected]. Grand Lake Mental Health Center is now GRAND Mental Health. The organization has changed its name to reflect its reach and mission of providing world-class mental health services to those living in …Grand Lake bass fishing includes angling for largemouth bass, white bass, spotted bass, and striped bass. Catfish varieties include blue catfish, channel catfish, and flathead catfish. Hybrid striped bass are regularly stocked in the lake. Fishing on the lake is great for beginners as well as highly skilled anglers.JW Marriott Bonnet Creek is newer, sleek, modern, and has a stylish concrete finish, as it only opened in 2020. There is little to choose between the style of these hotels, but the JW Marriott Grand Lakes feels more family-friendly, and the JW Marriott Bonnet Creek feels more adult. 5. Pools.Once you get to Grand County, use one of our local transportation options to navigate from town to town. Learn More. With more than 500 surface acres, Grand Lake is the largest …Visit hotel website >. Seize your piece of paradise poolside at the. Ritz-Carlton Orlando, Grande Lakes! Now until May 20th, 2024 save up to 15%. on your cabana or daybed. Use promo code BLSR24 to apply the discount. See you there!Book your Grand Lake Retreat. The Not Forgotten Cabin is a cabin vacation rental located across the street from picturesque Columbine Lake, the cabin is just minutes away from both Rocky Mountain National Park, in all its grandeur, as well as … Grand Lake – Grand Lake. Nestled at 8,367 ft (2,550 m) within the town of the same name (Grand Lake, Colorado), Grand Lake is Colorado’s largest natural body of water. Located in Grand County, Grand Lake has a surface area of 507 acres (205 ha), a maximum depth of 389 ft (119 m), and a total water volume of 68,621 acre⋅ft (84,643,000 m3). Jul 13, 2022 · Grand Lake, Colorado, is the perfect weekend getaway, with serene views, amazing wildlife, and easy access to Rocky Mountain National Park. A group of 56 anglers will compete in the 54th Bassmaster Classic, scheduled for March 22-24, 2024 on Grand Lake O’ the Cherokees with weigh-ins and festivities in Tulsa, Okla. From an age and experience standpoint, it’ll be one of the most diverse fields in the event’s history, with competitors ranging from 17-year-old Floridian …Overview Photos Rooms Dining Experiences Events. 4120 Taft Vineland Road, Orlando, Florida, USA, 32837. Fax: +1 407-351-2664. Follow Courtyard Orlando South/Grande Lakes Area. Book your stay at Courtyard Orlando South/Grande Lakes Area for a refreshing Florida getaway. Enjoy complimentary high-speed Wi-Fi, Smart TVs and on-site dining. Grand Lake CO 40.25°N 105.82°W (Elev. 8386 ft) Last Update: 3:26 am MDT Apr 20, 2024. Forecast Valid: 5am MDT Apr 20, 2024-6pm MDT Apr 26, 2024 . Forecast Discussion . Grand Lake bass fishing includes angling for largemouth bass, white bass, spotted bass, and striped bass. Catfish varieties include blue catfish, channel catfish, and flathead catfish. Hybrid striped bass are regularly stocked in the lake. Fishing on the lake is great for beginners as well as highly skilled anglers.Now $351 (Was $̶4̶9̶4̶) on Tripadvisor: JW Marriott Orlando, Grande Lakes, Orlando. See 4,025 traveler reviews, 2,516 candid photos, and great deals for JW Marriott Orlando, Grande Lakes, ranked #153 of 366 hotels in Orlando and rated 4 of 5 at Tripadvisor.Grand Lake Friends. ·. 934 members. This page is for the enjoyment of all residents of Grand Lake RV and Golf Resort, Citra FL; permanent, seasonal, and passing through. Any member of the group can ADD others, however a few words of caution. In these days of hacking, phishing, and other unsavory activity, and for the safety and security of our ...Stay in the heart of North Central Florida. Sun Retreats Ocala Orange Lake and Golf Resort is surrounded by natural beauty, from rivers and clear springs to hiking trails and golf courses. Get in touch with us to book your dream RV vacation in Florida. 18545 Northwest 45th Avenue Road, Citra FL 32113. (352) 591-1251.GRAND LAKE, CO. Known as the "Western Gateway" to Rocky Mountain National Park, Grand Lake has something for everyone, and the charming lakeside setting makes folks … Grand Lake is a small town of 400 people (2020) in the Northwestern region of the Rocky Mountain state of Colorado. Grand Lake sits at the southwest entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park. It is a tourist destination adjacent to the western entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park, which surrounds the lake and the town on three sides. History. The first records of the spring are from early European explorers and surveyors. In 1839, a group of four trappers from the American Fur Company crossed the Midway Geyser Basin and made note of a "boiling lake", most likely the Grand Prismatic Spring, with a diameter of 300 feet (90 m). In 1870 the Washburn–Langford–Doane Expedition visited …Phone Number. (419) 394-2774. Non-Emergency. #ODNR. Activities. Naturalist Programs. Miniature Golf. Boaters and anglers will want to stay close to the action at Grand Lake St Marys. The family campground offers pet-friendly …Reserve. We Price Match. Travel Proud. Courtyard by Marriott Orlando South/Grande Lakes Area. Courtyard by Marriott Orlando South/Grande Lakes Area. 4120 Taft Vineland Road, Orlando, FL 32837, United States of America–Excellent location – …Here's how to plan the perfect trip to Grand Lake, Colorado. Best Things to Do in Grand Lake Hike, bike, or drive through the quieter side of Rocky Mountain National Park.ADDRESS: 35043 S 4505 RD, AFTON, OK 74331PHONE: 918-937-6103EMAIL: [email protected]. Marina Del Rey has top-of-the-line cabins & RV Sites. Coming soon: a pool/bathhouse & boat slips to rent as well. It's the perfect place to stay for an outdoor vacation in Oklahoma.Jul 13, 2022 · Grand Lake, Colorado, is the perfect weekend getaway, with serene views, amazing wildlife, and easy access to Rocky Mountain National Park. Grand Lake St. Marys and other canal feeder lakes in Ohio were the first areas to be dedicated as state parks in 1949. Natural Features. At one time, the vast expanse of water that is Grand Lake St. Marys, was a vast wet prairie and forests, which stretched from the Allegheny mountains of Pennsylvania to the prairies of Illinois. Visit these pages for more specific properties: Vacation Rentals at Grand Lake and the Guide to RV Resorts and Camping at Grand Lake From luxurious waterfront resorts with all the amenities like the Shangri-La Resort and Conference Center to rustic cabin getaways or state-of-the-art RV Resorts with all the amenities to the very popular vacation ...
A world of possibilities lies just outside your guestroom. Our 500-tropical-acre backyard offers an unmatched blend of leisure and adventure exclusive to hotel guests. Dive into an afternoon of family fun at the Grande Lakes Waterpark, take a dip in our sprawling pool drenched in sunshine, or lounge in the luxury of your private cabana.. Air traffic control simulator
Summers in Grand Lake are iconic for a reason – it’s like summer camp for all ages! With Rocky Mountain National Park steps away from the Town of Grand Lake, and three gorgeous lakes to play on, you will delight in endless outdoor fun while enjoying all the perks of small-town shops and restaurants.: Summer Temps: 85F-45F, with the ... Town of Grand Lake Zoning Map (3 MB) Home; Staff Login; Accessibility; 1026 Park Avenue | Grand Lake, CO 80447-0099 | P.O. Box 99 | (970) 627-3435. The mallard dove for long periods of time before finally flying off, away from the eagle. “I’m on!”. I shrieked as my rod bounced up and down. Fifty feet behind the …Grand Lake is the biggest and deepest natural water body that is situated in Grand County, in the north-central part of the US State of Colorado. The Grand Lake is …Top Things to Do in Grand Lake, Colorado: See Tripadvisor's 17,119 traveller reviews and photos of Grand Lake tourist attractions. Find what to do today, this weekend, or in April. …Grand Lake CO 40.25°N 105.82°W (Elev. 8386 ft) Last Update: 3:26 am MDT Apr 20, 2024. Forecast Valid: 5am MDT Apr 20, 2024-6pm MDT Apr 26, 2024 . Forecast Discussion . Additional Resources. Radar & Satellite Image. Hourly Weather Forecast. National Digital Forecast Database. High Temperature.May 7, 2023 · Grand Lake is also known for its excellent fishing. With rainbow trout, cutthroat trout, and pike, the lake offers anglers a wide variety of fish to catch. In addition to fishing, visitors can also take advantage of the watercraft rentals available on the lake. Paddle boats, kayaks, and canoes are all available for rent. Visit hotel website >. Seize your piece of paradise poolside at the. Ritz-Carlton Orlando, Grande Lakes! Now until May 20th, 2024 save up to 15%. on your cabana or daybed. Use promo code BLSR24 to apply the discount. See you there! Grand Lake is Colorado 's largest and deepest natural lake. [5] It is located in the headwaters of the Colorado River in Grand County, Colorado. Its north shore is on located the historic and eponymous town of Grand Lake. The lake was formed during the Pinedale glaciation, which occurred from 30000 BC to 10000 BC. [6] Grand Lake, Colorado, Grand Lake, Colorado. 34,336 likes · 810 talking about this · 843 were here. Grand Lake is the Lakefront Mountain Paradise nestled...May 7, 2023 · Grand Lake is also known for its excellent fishing. With rainbow trout, cutthroat trout, and pike, the lake offers anglers a wide variety of fish to catch. In addition to fishing, visitors can also take advantage of the watercraft rentals available on the lake. Paddle boats, kayaks, and canoes are all available for rent. Grand Lake – Grand Lake. Nestled at 8,367 ft (2,550 m) within the town of the same name (Grand Lake, Colorado), Grand Lake is Colorado’s largest natural body of water. Located in Grand County, Grand Lake has a surface area of 507 acres (205 ha), a maximum depth of 389 ft (119 m), and a total water volume of 68,621 acre⋅ft (84,643,000 m3). Grand Lake. Grand Lake – set in a north-central Colorado town of the same name – is the state's largest and deepest natural lake, spanning more than 500 acres and reaching depths of nearly 400 ...Once you get to Grand County, use one of our local transportation options to navigate from town to town. Learn More. With more than 500 surface acres, Grand Lake is the largest …Golf Features. 18-hole golf course designed by two-time British Open champion Greg Norman. Upscale, full-service clubhouse with pro shop and Fairways Pub restaurant and bar. All-grass driving range, putting green, and practice facility. Five sets of tees available for varying shot options, with closely mowed turf and short roughs..